Monday, February 16, 2009

Anonymous Commenters BEWARE

People are beginning to get a little pissy...MM left the following comment:

Why are people 'Anon' anyway ? If you have the conviction of your stated view, then why not be up front about it ? It used to be scared deaf people who disagreed with the communual view, and were afraid they would get ostracised by peers if they knew that. (Which said more about the closed shop approach of culture at that time).

These days I would have thought, nobody is bothered about that now. There is a distinct difference between 'online' comments and grass-root daily things. I think perhaps because there is no avenue in the deaf community to have 'debates' over things, you risk conflict personally there, which is sad...


At the very beginning of blogging, the thought blew through my mind, "Wow, wouldn't it be hot to be her!"

 

Then, I decided to take myself seriously. I am who I am.

I have had no problem accepting anonymous comments, since a few commenters have contacted me personally via email to explain a bit about their personal lives and why, in fact, they choose to remain anonymous. Not everyone feels comfortable sharing their personal identity on line, and I can understand that. My mom has screamed at me many times telling me not to post photos and the personal experiences of my children. I have been fortunate to have had only positive interaction with people by blog, I am naive by nature- I sincerely hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the ass at a later point. For now, I'm going forward.

*And*

There are people who sign with a name, but do you really know whether that is their real name? I'm interested in stimulating dialogue to hopefully reach some sort of intense revelation. I am optimistic.

*So*

As I always say, "Take it from the source..."

38 comments:

mishkazena said...

With anonymous commenters, some people are reluctant to use their names due to valid concerns of retaliations from others. However, others don't want to be held accountable if they attack others.

If ad hominem attacks are becoming a serious problem, you can put a request for no bashing. Usually that will do the trick.

Dianrez said...

I'm with you on your feelings about anonymous commenters...they may have reasons, but honestly
they lose credibility because they don't stand behind what they say.

If a comment is important enough, having a consistent handle or a nickname is far better than "anonymous". If the handle can be connected to a real name or at least a blog, even better.

Going anonymous runs the risk of being dismissed, having one's ideas stolen or credited to someone else.

It also implies unreliability and invites criticism just because the writer is unknown and therefore more vulnerable to it.

Shel said...

I agree with Mishka. If an anonymous resorts to bashing, you can delete and ask that person to edit or revise their comment to exclude bashing, then publish the new edition. That's another approach to be utilized.

I have had friends tell me that I was brave to put my name out there, and that they commented under anonymous out of fear. I cannot really blame them. It can get vicious on DeafRead, especially when passions run high on hot-button issues, unfortunately.

Karen Mayes said...

Yeah, I noticed that. I have no problem with some anonymous comments which appear rational. But when the anonymous ones just attack and run, that is when one's tolerance for anonymous wears down.

Chris said...

Anon is a person that don't want to be attacked by cyberbullies.

Paotie, Candy, White Ghost, etc are also "Anon" names.

Paotie is one of the meanest cyberbullies around.

We just need to moderate better and let Anonymous have their freedom of speech as long as it is not in the category of a cyberbully.

Anonymous said...

Remember this is a small deaf community. Everyone knows everyone.

I'm White Ghost and always will. Casper will take a good care of me and you. :-)

I'm good and life is good.

I'm doing my time at the beach. Therefore, life is a beach!

White Ghost

Anonymous said...

Chris, you are also an "anony" name.

And as MZ and Shel say, bashing often occurs online by "anony" commenters. You just bashed a person as the "meanest cyberbully". No need to get sanctimonious here.

Myself, I go by a consistent handle that people do recognize as a commenter with a distinct enough view. I never go hopping around under different "anony" names like some individuals do to take potshots at others. But I take my privacy seriously, hence the handle and not my real name.

Ann_C

. said...

"Paotie is one of the meanest cyberbullies around."

This is a joke? Right? Meanest? Paotie makes his points known but not in the manner as a cyberbully in the classic sense. Exactly what is your definition of a "cyberbully"?

Paotie has his own way, unique I'd say, of saying things but not in the sense to "bully" people around but to make a clear point or example, even to the point of calling you out. It's a little far fetched to even imagine that. Either you feel Paotie's is a bully because perhaps he challenged your sensibilities and somehow you felt..... offended?

Perhaps give us some examples as to why you say he's a cyberbully.

. said...

drats! the above comment was mine.

mcconnell

Anonymous said...

I appreciate Jodi's acceptance of Anon postings, of which I am one.
I don't want to have to sign up for an account to post a comment. I got enough on my plate as it is, and yes, I don't want the haggle of people sending me stuff I don't want, need, nor care for.
I have no problem putting my name on something that is of dire importance, but this kind of stuff here doesn't require my name, social security number, and DOB just to prove who I am.

Sign me,
LUCKY

Candy said...

Looks like Chris is the only person that attacked someone here today, ergo, he is a cyber harasser.

And for Jodi's recent post, there were anonymouses and a Kim that was attacking. I didn't see anyone else doing the attacking.

Many writers have a pen name they use that isn't their real name. I have no problem revealing who I am, but when I write and comment I will use my pen name. And, there are a few that knows who I am. As long as there are people out there that knows who I am, my integrity is still important to me with my pen name.

I hope this clears things up for you, Kim...err...I mean, Chris.

Anonymous said...

Dianrez and Mishkazena are no better. They don't use real names like yours. Anon is like a nickname. What's different? Moreover, Anon is to protect a writer against the Tayler Mayer team who collect ALL bloggers & commenters' IP addresses which should be personal & private! They're dicatators and insensitive. Now you understand why it isn't safe to show a writer's real name on DEAFREAD! I ain't the cyperbully type, but because of the Tayler team, I have to protect my ID. Capisce?

LaRonda said...

Hi Jodi.

One other possible reason people use Anonymous as a name is because of the "Disinhibition Effect" that comes from blogging.

I explain this in my transcribed vlog called "Dealing with Web Harassment" here:

http://www.earofmyheart.com/wordpress/2008/02/12/dealing-with-web-harassment/

The online disinhibition effect is when people say and do things in cyberspace that they wouldn’t ordinarily say or do in the face-to-face world because of:

Anonymity
Invisibility
Delayed reactions
Attempt to equalize status
Personality styles
Mind Blindness

I expand on each area and clarify the definitions of:

Trolls
Cyberbullies
Kooks
Flamers
Hit-And-Runners
Cyberstalkers

In the end, I offer ways we can take care of ourselves in the blogosphere and preserve our emotional well being.

Take a look.
:)

~ LaRonda

mishkazena said...

Anon, many people do know my real name is. It's not a secret ;)

All one need to do is to check the list of DeafRead editors. My name is there.

Dianrez said...

Dianrez is a name created from syllables in my first and last names, and a Google will reveal my real name. I do not hide anything and often use it to introduce myself at gatherings.

Cyberbullies engage in ad hominem name-calling, such as flinging "stupid" without giving constructive viewpoints. They attack even when not challenged. They play to an audience. They hijack constructive discussion and attempt to lead it astray for their own purposes.

In all of Deafread, I've only met one or two cyberbullies, a few who are stubbornly contrarian, and a few more who are sincere diehards.

Generally they're the spices who keeps things interesting, but one must keep them within limits or the whole smorgasbord gets ruined.

mishkazena said...

One more thing, anon, as a DR moderator, I don't have access to the ip addresses of the bloggers and commenters. I suggest you contact Tayler to discuss your concerns.

Anonymous said...

oy vey....
Jodi’s blog is all about choices. We all make them and her blog’s strength has been that she allowed everyone as much latitude as possible.

This is truly a double edged sword in that there will always be those who push the limits of the written rules. There should be civility. As long as the discourse was kept civil, folks could banter back and forth to their hearts content.

Jodi’s blog is about bringing together any and all who want to share their stories, have questions, or searching for information. Fortunately for us all, she has given us that latitude. Let’s try and keep it civil without having to roll punches.

Cheers,
Sharon

p.s...true about Deaf Read accessing your email as I was once contacted, to my dismay, by Deaf Read staffer.

Anonymous said...

mishkazena,

Don't deny. Here's a piece of proof cuz I copied it from your Team's page. Your name is on it. You & your Team shows my IP address, home state, & ISP. Here it goes from the Team's page.Now you can understand Sharon's dismay.

Contact DeafRead

Your IP address: __.___.__.___
Your Host: pool-__-___-__-___.city.state.east.____ISP name___

This e-mail will be sent to:
Tayler Mayer
Jared Evans
Carrie Gellibrand
Amy Cohen Efron
Elizabeth Gillespie
Subject

*Your email address so that we can reply

*Your friendly message!

Subject

*Your email address so that we can reply

*Your friendly message!

______________________________________



SEND E-MAIL

Hackers are very much alive crawling on webs and thankl your Team for exposing my personal info!

Paula Rosenthal said...

I see both sides on this, but I feel that those who attack others using Anon or Anonymous are unfairly and maliciously hiding behind anonymity. When you attack people in blog comments and don't use your name it is an online hit and run, a cowardly act where you're afraid to take the consequences of your actions.

You don't need to sign up for anything or divulge personal information other than your name. Simply select the Anonymous choice under "Choose an identity" and sign your name at the end of your post.

Perhaps if everyone were required to identify themselves they'd be more courteous toward one another. You don't need to agree with everyone, but be decent.

My real name is Kim said...

I hardly ever read anonymous comments on other blogs. There are some, like Seek Geo, who have cyber identities. I see nothing wrong with that or with commenting anonymously, but when I'm rushing through comments I look for names I recognize. For example, I always like to see what Ann-C, both Deaf Karens, MM, DianRez, LaRonda and Mishka Zena have to say. There are many others, but I can't list them all.

I don't read comments from cyber identities known to be contentious anymore, nor do I read their blogs.

My real name is Kim said...

Candy,
Which recent post did a 'Kim' attack someone? Was it me? There's another Kim who comments, and a Kym too. Sometimes I agree with the other Kim and sometimes I don't.

MM said...

I should point out (If no-one else has !), I sign via the addy 'MM' this is part ego (!), and part, how most recognise me online in the UK. My name is available for anyone who wants to know, and most in the UK online area know it. I am the least 'anon' in the UK deaf area ! My picture has also been on my blogs from time to time, so along with the name, the face is there too... (Sorry if this puts George Clooney's nose out of joint but lol)...

The original comment was via painful experience of one particular blogger (Still at deaf.read,different me/blog same old bile), who hurled abuse after abuse and even pornography at my blogs, as well as cyber-stalking me around the web.

This person is so adept, can post multi-comments anywhere under different addy's, and used that to suggest views I didn't hold, and used my addy to attack deaf people, even created a blog and attributed to me, and again used it to attack other deaf people.

It's important to track back these anons and their addy's, sooner or later they all end up in one place. I know my stalker by a sentence or word used now, so that person never gets a look in now, or, is going to get the time of day from me. Isolate them, it's the only way, we can all do this by cutting off their oxygen via our blog comments spots, deaf.read can sort out offensive blogs, all it takes is the will, Oh, and forget the free speech angle, that's how they get away with it, at the end of the day you HAVE to censor them.

You will find, that they, are the most ardent promoter's of free speech, now we can see why ! I really do not care if others suggest this is censorship, I am not going to sit there and just take it.

Tony Nicholas said...

Yes MM, that person you are referring to is me.

And You are not going to get any apologies from me. I have followed your writings, from UK groups to DeafRead and eslewhere, you are entitled to your views, fair enough. But don't cry poor me when people call you up on your trollish behaviour.

Furthermore, some of your posts have been offensive and racist, so stop being so dishonest about your position OK!

But thanks for the nod to my writing skills!

DUCHESSA said...

ciao Jodi, ma una parolina in italiano mai??? comunque oggi per caso ho trovato quel tuo comm di tanto tempo fa (PS. Chi sa se lo vedrai...*smile* Jodi
Perchè proprio Trieste??)ed allora mi sono chiesta: proprio Trieste cosa???? Dai Jodina sciogli questo dilemma... un bacio

Candy said...

Hi Kim,

No not you!! You tend to sign off with your name that links to your blog, besides this 'other' Kim does not write like you do. It wasn't her view, it was the attack.

Jodi Cutler Del Dottore said...

Duchessa...vedi http://daigenitoriaigenitori.blogspot.com Ha voglia l'italiano! In riguardo alla dilemma...vedremmo:)))
Cmq. Se vai sul Settings del tuo blog, troverai la capacità di vedere tutti i commenti che arrivano anche dopo ogni post- cioè i commenti dovresti vedergli direttamente al tuo indirizzo email, non esclusivamente sul blog. Se no, quando qualcuno trova il tuo blog e lascia un commento su un post di tanto tempo fa...lo puoi vedere subito dalla tua posta-A quell'epoca lì ti avrei spiegato la facenda Trieste *smile*

Jodi Cutler Del Dottore said...

Kim,
I have to admit, I was quite perplexed by the comments signed, "Kim," but they were so obviously not your style. I love your blog posts and your soulful, expressive way of writing. Just in case you didn't already know that...

Sharon- you are so sweet. Above all, you are an example of an evolution in commenting- going from Divided to Sharon. Maybe something clicked for you along the way. Blogging for me has been a revolutionary experience, why shouldn't it be that way for the commenters, as well??
Hugs to all- anon and not.
Jodi

Jared Evans said...

Hi, I would like to clarify the IP address information that you see on the "Contact DeafRead" link.

When you click on that link, you'll see:

Contact DeafRead

Your IP address: 15.175.1.77
Your Host: 15.175.1.77
This e-mail will be sent to:
Tayler Mayer
Jared Evans
Carrie Gellibrand
Amy Cohen Efron
Elizabeth Gillespie

As you can see, it has nothing to do with blogs or comments. The purpoe is to send us an email and by letting the person know that have the IP
address helps to reduce the chance that we get abusive emails.

All websites are able to see the IP addresses of their visitors and use the information for many purposes, including preventing or reducing abusive behavior.

We don't have special access to other blogs, comments or emails when we display this information. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

MM said...

Didn't someone just admit to being an abusive troll, serial stalker, and personal abuser, pornographer, and hacker of other deaf.read members ? I don't see deaf.read taking actions over it, nor American Mom.... Just what does deaf.read constitute as 'abuse' ? It makes the removal of a plug for CI's look rather tame.... It also makes it difficult for those of us being pro-active in zeroing these abusers and bullies, on oiur blogs, only to see deaf.read and other bloggers giving them free rein. You need a united front here to rid ourselves of these people, since unaddressed abuse on other people's blogs, allows us to be forced off them, and for their to get their kicks..... these people have brought sites down.... then they move to the next...

Anonymous said...

Jared didn't tell you fully. The DR staff knows where you live!

To see for yourself, type http://www.deafread/email. Then the page will open wide.

Then your jaws will drop to the floor because __the first thing__ you'll see is your IP address and __the name of city__ you live in and the name of your ISP __EVEN BEFORE__ you type your name and email address!

Protect your security! There're
plenty of snoopers 'round!

Dianrez said...

What is the problem with Deafread knowing one's identity even if one prefers anonymous, a false name or even a well-known handle?

I trust Deafread not to use my info except to contact me. What else would they do with it? If they were to misuse that information, they would lose me, my blog, and my readers. Not a very wise thing to do in any business that depends on public participation.

Anonymous said...

I don't have any problems with DR knowing my identity as long as they are to abide by their ethical standards. However, I was contacted directly to my email by one of DR's editor in reference to comments I left on the editor's public blog. He should have never taken upon himself to email me but could have respond on his blog. I felt he violated my privacy by sending me an email.

To those who guard against their privacy....you can either use a pseudonym email address or you can give constructive comments whether it is + or -.

Ok, enuff of that....shall we move on?!

Cheers,
Sharon

Sherlock Steve said...

Well, I have to share my own experience in the blog world. Some people can be responsible commenters out there. But those, who are being "Anonymous Commenters", are the very ones who not only do damage to your blog, but hide behind the cyber trees of the internet while preaching "RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH".

When I was on Xanga.com, I was faced with a daily firestorm. It wasn't just users leaving comments. But it was people signing up like crazy and leaving damaging comments on my blog as if the "OUTRAGE is there". It really wasn't. One user is still wanted for arrest on Xanga because of her irresponsible comments because I've jumped from their site after being pleaded NOT to.

I've pleaded with those who run xanga to improve security on their blog, I finally gave up and moved to the current site. I am fully aware that they have improved xanga but I say TOO LITTLE TOO LATE!

Blog spot has been wonderful ever since I set up my account. I've been harassed and demanded and threatened by users to open my blog for all "Anonymous Commentors". I have responed to those threats, without publishing their comments, and said "When one Anony commenter abuses their right to write comments, it becomes mandatory to permanently moderate comments". That is to say: the right of free speech does NOT include the right to personally attack and destroy the blog and it's author/owner of the blog.

Since then, moderation is what needed to be done to preserve your blog. Review the comments before you allow it to be published. It gives you the chance to kill the firestorm before it starts.

So I hope you will consider moderation on your site before you allow those comment attackers create firestorms that you do not need at all.

Jared Evans said...

Only you, the visitor to that page, can see the IP address printed on
the email page. Others will see only their IP address. IP addresses
does not identify you. It tells us the general location of the computer used,
not where you live.

The email page allows people to very easily reach us. Most websites do not do this, but because we want to keep
communication lines wide open, we make this feature available. Since we are opening ourselves to emails that could contain abusive language, we need to protect ourselves to some degree. As you said, we know only the geographic city and state of the computer, but we can submit this information to authorities should the need arise (death
threats etc).

Finally, You do NOT need to use this page.

Anonymous said...

Jared!!!

Ooogggg, why do you use this very page for people to use to get in touch with you and other staffers?!

I ain't the only one who complains about the staff. There're many people who want to complain to the sponsor about about the DR staff.

We can't wait to move to another aggregator.

DUCHESSA said...

Jodi, sei troppo crudeleeeeeeeee, comunque quello dei comm ho fatto, grazie...

MM said...

If you read a blog long enough then it is relatively easy to ID the person and where they live anyway, I don't think deaf.read does any more than the blogger themselves in assisting that. Hell we have deaf people here using Twitter which can pin-point a user to a street they are walking in.

At the start we had dire warnings NEVER to give out real names, or any other information. From what I see online this is ignored by most of us, but NOT by those who want to be anon to make trouble.

It is important to separate those with strong/alternative views, from those using contention anonymously primarily to mix it, and to disrupt. Bad language is also a childish approach to use too. Again it is something I don't allow on my blog, anyone so doing is asked to rephrase their coment to make it acceptable, if they don't, again they don't get that comment accepted, I don't demand they change their view.

Warnings are of course vital to be aimed at children, and deaf read should be very pro-active to maintain none of them are exposed at this site too. Adults who are online for any amount of time, know the score or should by now. In-boxes to e-mails can be programmed to filter them out, mine does very effectively.

Most of us can edit out who we don't want to see, deaf.read gives the option to remove from sight blogs you don't want to read. The issue is they are conned by the free-speech angle, I aint falling for it. They are censored OUT. Let them annoy someone else. No-one has the right to abuse. edqually if they abuse from their own sites, I never respond either, let them talk themselves into a corner.

Some we saw in the UK were undergoing therapy and had mental health issues, who became paranoid about other bloggers, a disability site was completely disrupted by one as the person targeted near everyone very nastily.

Trapped by their own political correctness (!) they allowed a lot of abuse to carry on afraid they would be labeled discriminatory to other disabled, again free speech not really being understood properly. This is simply pathetic moderation. 3 strikes and out could have been applied etc...

At the end of the day, you have to address it for the good of the majority. Let the professionals do their work, not let those with issues take it out on everyone else. The issue of deaf mental health is quite severe, we are told 40% of our deaf children have poor MH now...

Jared Evans said...

Anonymous: if you really think the DeafRead team is doing a bad job, I would be interested in hearing your complaints to see how we can improve.

You can email me directly at jnevans@gmail.com if you want to avoid sending an email to us via the DeafRead contact page.

I'm posting this here in the comments since this is where you brought it up but would be glad to take it to a private email conversation.